@alcinnz Nice one I'll have a look at Odysseus possibly GNOME web is a shout too.

I'm made this for civilian non-tech types like my mum primarily. Maybe if they used Firefox for a couple of days they might think "this is fine" and then move on to use DuckDuckGo and so on.

I'm trying to keep it relatively simple at this point to see if I can get any traction.

@jamesmullarkey Far enough.

If you had a "Linux" section, these browsers would fit nicely there. But I can understand if you don't feel that's appropriate.

Packaging for Mac/Windows is a significant step up for us in terms of effort and responsibility because then we do have to bundle the engine rather than just depend on it.

@alcinnz
IMHO, #firefox is the only browser that can be set to automatically delete temporary files including cookies upon exit.

Or can others do that as well?
@jamesmullarkey

@nurinoas @jamesmullarkey There's Firefox Focus & the browsers it's inspired like elementary's Ephemeral, but otherwise I don't know of any others. These browsers essentially serves to help you curate the browser history you allow into your main browser.

As for my work on Odysseus I'll probably encourage people to install Ephemeral for this feature...

@nurinoas
Falkon does that too https://www.falkon.org/
@alcinnz @jamesmullarkey

@silmathoron @alcinnz @jamesmullarkey cool tip, thanks!
These settings are hidden behind 3 dialogues.
Typical for #kde

@gudenau

...and?

No go?

@jamesmullarkey Yeah, they don't care at all.

@gudenau

Tricky some people not bothered about privacy I guess.

What about anti-trust / competition Chrome is bad for that. Have a look at all the reasons to switch I could come up specifically on Chrome.

https://notochrome.org/google-products/google-chrome-web-browser/

@jamesmullarkey Yeah, I've talked about must points. That don't care at all.

@gudenau

Sorry :( Google is bad stuff -Sidewalk labs, project mavern, adding to the climate crisis?

You can't win em all

@despens it's a good point - i knew it was similar but didn't know they developed it. I'd used it to mock them more than anything and I downloaded a local version and blocked Google fonts. I may have to bin it off moving forward.

@jamesmullarkey @despens on that note, notochrome also parses as Noto Chrome, Noto being another Google font. I was confused since I originally read it as notchrome, then got stuck on Noto Chrome.

@0xford @despens trying to live outside the googlenet ain't easy

@isagalaev OK thanks!

@dsfgs arr OK I'm sorry about that.

I really want it to work with @torproject and also have a dat:// version in the future.

I'm not a Dev so learning curve steep with all this

@dsfgs Tor users aren't the target audience, see:
https://w3c.social/@jamesmullarkey/102424688729665054
@jamesmullarkey

@z428 @jamesmullarkey
to be fair, you can remove #googlesearch
from

@_microbe101 Sure. Still I wonder whether Mozilla and Firefox would be able to survive without Google funding. Same goes for some other FLOSS entities (GNOME...) that count Google and similar industry heavyweights as regular important donors. How "Libre" is that really if it's essentially "gratis" because of a large industry funding it...? Tough question, in my opinion.

@jamesmullarkey

#googlesearch

@z428 @_microbe101 survive I think yes but obviously at a different scale. The Google money is a crazy high % of their income though.

@jamesmullarkey @z428 ah, then let us wait for more & precisely #techsafety & #securityaudit how the g00g le #libre
"money" appears :tbh

@jamesmullarkey Yes. That's something I'm also afraid of. I'd be much more "happy" knowing I had some option to pay a fair amount of money for a Firefox environment that lives completely off a community backing it and doesn't *need* any contracts with search engines to pay any of its operations.

@_microbe101

@z428 @jamesmullarkey yes,
agree, with your point of view.

@z428 The bad thing is: Even, if you use browsers like Midori, most often the browser engine is the Google one. Coding a browser engine seems to be no simple task.

Because of this I was astonished, how compatible min ist. This browser is entirely written in Javascript. But I think, the browser engine may also be the Google one?!? Don't know. Writing a browser engine in JS would be crazy, I think...



@jamesmullarkey @_microbe101

@herrdoering @z428 @jamesmullarkey
#GNUicecat 1/2 is a firefox esr fork with implemented wrapper, but has also goo gl
search, with the opt.out (remove)
on mobile, from #fdroid
i have other options to switch, by ever
link i wan't to open, non of them are set as default browser.

@herrdoering @z428 @jamesmullarkey
2/2 is it a known #securityfail & #privacyrisk to
enable the "send a do not track request" flag?
only in #incognito modus was the right setting, because always on DNT makes you more outstanding for #fingerprinting ?
@herrdoering

@herrdoering @z428 @jamesmullarkey
browser coded in js.
sounds really crazy, but from a #trustworthy
source, maybe.

@herrdoering @z428 @_microbe101 Midori uses a Google stuff? That would suprise me. Tbh the midori website is so suspect I'm thinking of removing it.

@jamesmullarkey Sorry, the engine of #Midori is #WebKit and this is not from Google, it is from Apple.

https://github.com/midori-browser/core

So it's not Google, but still it is not selfwritten. Another browser, which uses #WebKitGtk is #Epiphany.

@z428 @_microbe101

@z428 @_microbe101 @jamesmullarkey
What's Kristall clear here, is that a totally different economic model is required. Alphabet has nothing that was not given to them by everybody who's been working in Tech or online in the past decades. Now, if, and it's a big "if", this "everybody" realises this power, Internet & Digital Comms tech could still become something more useful than just another tool to "sell you shit you don't need"

@kino Yes. Fully agree. I am, however, unsure who should be spear-heading the movement to trigger change towards a totally different economic model, let alone knowing how exactly it should look like... 😟

@_microbe101 @jamesmullarkey

@z428 @_microbe101 @jamesmullarkey
I think an important challenge here is to get one's head out of the silicon valley promoted idea that tech is liberating, and that valley tech, optimisation, machine assistance, etc.. (a.k.a. alphabet et al) will somehow liberate society from a tyrannical system of nation state governments generally referred to as "democracy", by replacing this with a tyrannical system of corporate control to be known as "democracy"

@z428 @_microbe101 @jamesmullarkey
If we keep it minimal and only consider this different model in current context, (otherwise we get into a debate on the entire system!) - There might be something to be said for having what might be considered basic, or essential services only run as non profits.

@z428 @_microbe101 @jamesmullarkey
As for who, I do think the EU /might/ be relevant here. But we do need to not see govt as a problem and tech as a solution. hmm.. but in order to do that we first need to implement something like "democracy"

@kino @z428 @jamesmullarkey agree with you **kino** strong & active democracy should be impl. in the €U.

in the meantime, the eu- headqu. making to much regulations in a sect0r they don't know exactly, from my point of view.

@z428 lndeed. There is no perfect solution to any list of browsers. This is the best I could come up with :)

@jamesmullarkey Yeah of course, no offense intended. That's quite a messy thing to deal with anyway. At the moment, I'm using #Brave without much enthusiasm. Don't like Brendan Eich very much, and the browser always builds on Chrome but at least they seem the only ones so far to make a balance and actually try to fix privacy in a "gratis-as-in-tracking-funded" web. 😐

@tagomago sorry yeah definitely something I want to sort out in the future :)

@aran I see your point but I'm going for regular folk and trying to be a starting point. If you use Firefox and it's OK you might then use DDG and so on. A small gesture to trigger another :)

@aran @jamesmullarkey
I'm quite happy with slippery sliding from NO to chrome, NO to the six letter word, to delete, to fuck off. Actually, first fuck off, then delete.

@kino @jamesmullarkey Yeah I'm happy with slippery slopes if they're going in that direction 😃

@jordila thanks I'll have a look but decided not to include any chromium based browsers. :)

@ademalsasa thanks :)

@cowanon @jamesmullarkey the problem is that even if we take away the browser aspect, google still follows you relentlessly in other ways. The browser is in fact the least of your concerns.

The problem stems from the fact that google is the main search engine of the web. Next to that, it offers numerous tools for companies to help them track things on their websites and webshops, but google benefits from that as well; they get to see that data as well. In fact, the companies only get the few bits most important to them, so this is just a clever way for google to let others do the heavy lifting.
After that, there's google's whole advertising system, that tracks users through their ads. Once again, google is watching you.

The problem is, google has their fingers in a lot of parts of the web, which grants them this kind of control. Even if you take away the issues with chrome, you're still seriously compromised by all the other stuff google does. Even if you don't use any of google's services, they are still tracking you. You can't solve this problem by trying to take down the chrome browser.

The only way to solve this is to collectively deny google this power by not using their services in any way; not even anonymously through searx or qwant or startpage. Don't use an android phone. Don't use any of google's webservices like gmail or google drive. Don't use google maps as your gps solution. Don't use youtube, even through alternate frontends like invidious or newpipe. And as a company, don't use any of google's analytics tools. There's plenty of other solutions out there for all of these things to completely deny google. But it will only work if we do so collectively, both consumer and company alike, both end user and programmer alike. Deny google their existence.

@fristi @cowanon

I hear you. This campaign is intended as a first step to a full abandonment of all Google products. People giving up chrome can then move on to using @DuckDuckGo and @openstreetmap and so on. Cheers.